Name: INTERVIEW The Highlight Reel Q4 2025 Celebrity Brands
Uploaded: 2025-11-19T18:55:38.907Z
Duration: 43 min 15 s
Description: INTERVIEW The Highlight Reel Q4 2025 Celebrity Brands

Transcript for "INTERVIEW The Highlight Reel Q4 2025 Celebrity Brands": Hello and welcome to the Highlight Reel, an interview series featuring CPG industry leaders and trailblazers who are building products that people love. I'm Dana Kim, founder and CEO of Highlight and today I'm joined by two special guests to talk about the latest gold rush in CPG, celebrity backed brands. Please welcome Lucas Fallacy, CEO of Veral and Jackie Widman, SVP of let's start off with some intros. Jackie, let's start with you. I'm Jackie Widman. I'm the SVP of marketing and commercial at Biro. We are a premium nonalcoholic beer, founded and created by Tom Holland, who some of you may know from his, you know, series in Spider Man and many, many other critically acclaimed films and and great shows. You know, this product is really something that all of us on the team are super, super passionate about. We created a nonalcoholic beer that is crafted with really premium ingredients. We want this product to be something that people reach for when they are craving social connection, and they want to be a part of the moment and celebrate all that life has to offer, but really, you know, allow ourselves to enjoy the moment without any of the negative effects that come with drinking alcohol. It's not about sobriety. It's really more of a lifestyle. Lucas. Sure. So Lucas, I'm a CEO at Barrel. Been with the company for the last twelve years. Background in design and branding. So I actually started there twelve years ago as a as a designer, and have since really grown the agency to where we are today. And what we do is we work closely with CPG brands, really helping them build out their digital experience across channels. So, relevant for today's discussion, one of our recent clients was Stiller Soda, which we've had a lot of fun working on, but we've also, you know, worked with brands like McCormick, Once Upon a Farm, Khloe Kardashian's cloud, really helping figure out how to tell their story online, which we think is incredibly important in in 2025 no matter where you're selling, just having that story told online. Very cool. Well, we have bureau instillers on display here, but both of you have so much experience and a wealth of knowledge beyond those brands. So very excited to dig in. Lucas, I'd love to start with you in terms of digging into you talked a little bit about digital storytelling and ensuring that brands are able to tell their stories online. Of course, we were in a heyday of d two c a couple years ago. Now many CPG brands are really doubling down on retail as the most scalable effective channel to reach customers. So in a world where most consumer brands are retail first, how do brands successfully tell their stories online and what role does website play? Yeah. I mean, there's a few different terms I like to use. One is brand flagship. The other, these days, it feels very relevant as the brain of the brand. Mhmm. Because just kind of at its core, the website is powering so many other channels now. And so if we think about AI search as a big one that everyone's talking about, that content needs to come from somewhere. And so it's really a decision for the brand to say, do we wanna own our narrative online, or we do do we want someone else to own it? Yeah. And so if you are in a space that has a lot of customers creating recipes or doing product reviews as an example, we actually had a client who doing some AI search optimization. We found this. They had a, a woman who was creating a a blog around their product, and that was the leading source for all of AI search because she's written the most content, and this brand had no idea that this existed. Mhmm. So for them, it's like, okay. How do we kinda take control of who we are online? So I think from, like, a data driven perspective, there's that that's literally happening, and it's really important. Mhmm. But I think we what we're excited about is we're seeing clients coming to us more and more for what I'm about to say, which just hasn't always been true. But it's this idea that, you know, we acknowledge that, one, the customer journey is no longer linear. And two, that we live in a very connected world. So, you know, I don't know if anybody's gone to a coffee shop in New York kidding. Obviously, you have. But, like, you know, your credit card, loyalty points pop up on the thing and, you know, you do all this digital, then you get a text when you get your receipt. Like Mhmm. We're always on our phones even in these real life experiences, and so we see it as no different as a brand. If I'm, you know, looking if I'm at the beer store, and I am looking for a nonalcoholic option, I'm most likely just googling each brand. I'm looking at the packaging, but then I'm, like, on their site. Mhmm. And if the site can't answer the questions on my mind about sourcing or who's behind this or why I should care, I'm not gonna pick it up off the shelf. And so I think what we're excited about and what we're trying to help our clients always think about is, like, where are the moments that people are looking at your site? And I think the brands who aren't doing well are saying, we're in retail. Like, we just have some products on the site. And then I meet the founder, for instance. We have this amazing conversation that go on the site, and I'm like, nothing about any of this is here. Mhmm. So why would somebody like, you you're you're putting so much in the packaging and just hoping that they get something out of it. Mhmm. So that's really what we're thinking about. And even if you're you are selling online, for, I would say, like, 95% of our clients, it's not the main channel or they plan for it not to be the main channel. Yeah. But it's just as important to really be that space. And if you think about it, it's really the only channel that you can fully control. Mhmm. Because in social, in retail, there's so many other factors that can change how someone sees you. And so we're like, why not fully own it? And I think, you know, BR is a great example of a brand. Like, when Jackie and I met and, you know, I had already heard Tom's story on a podcast Mhmm. I was so impressed by a brand who's selling a beverage Mhmm. Investing so much and creating an amazing online experience that you can engage with and learn from, versus just being like, cool. We're going in retail. Like, that's not what we don't need to worry about that. Mhmm. Because, yeah, you do. You have to you do have to worry about it. So Yeah. Totally. Yeah. I, I definitely remember when Jackie told me she was moving to Vero and I looked it up. I was like, wow. Like, so much interesting content on here that I wouldn't expect for a brand that is primarily, selling or going to primarily sell in retail. And over time, I've found, like I I feel like I'm surprised and delighted every time I go to the bureau website. I'm like, oh, they have cool merch. I want this tote. It's sold out. Like, there's, like, this really, interesting journey that I'm on where I I don't necessarily think of Biro as just a beverage brand. Actually, it's more of like a lifestyle. And, that goes to my next question for you, Jackie, which is, there is so much messaging around Tom and his story, as it relates to building the bureau brand and positioning, but there's also, real pride in the liquid and what's inside the can. So how do you balance, the the story of bureau while also proving it's it's delicious, it stands up, it holds up to other products in the category? Yeah. It's honestly a challenge that we are thinking through every day because, ultimately, the way that people discover the brand may vary depending on what platform they come across us, whether it's Google search or some AI result is spitting us out as the top hit for something that they should check out. Or maybe it's one of our paid ads on social, which vary in topic from street interviews to quality of the liquid in our brewing amazing brew master, Grant Wood, who comes from forty years of experience in the industry and such an acclaimed background. We wanna tell his story and the story of the liquid just as much as we wanna tell Tom's story. Hopefully, our core customers can understand that there's really, like, a full three sixty approach that goes into that, and Mhmm. They start to then be able to share via word-of-mouth. Not only is this a great nonalcoholic beer that was started by Tom, who I love from, you know, Spider Man Mhmm. But this is also a product that has real, you know, grit to it. We have years of industry experience. The product tastes great. We're sourcing really special ingredients from around the world, to ensure that the product is what people expect from a flavor profile perspective. So I think, you know, the long answer to that is there's not one way that people are discovering us the most necessarily. We're hopefully getting spotted in retail. We're hopefully starting to show up in more restaurants and bars, you know, around The US and The UK. But I think, ultimately, the online presence for the brand has been critical because I think if it's not the website, it's our Instagram or our TikTok, and all three of those digital platforms have been crucial to telling the story. And the website has been one that we wanna keep evolving and be able to show even more elements of, you know, how our brewing process works, what it looks like, interviews, and, you know, more engagement for the consumers so they really feel and live the brand, not just buy it. I need a beer at Taproom. Yeah. One day. I'll be there. I would love it. Amazing. Lucas, you, mentioned the importance of the website, the heart of the brand, really showing up in digital experiences. How do you think about across your portfolio brands or maybe using stillers as an example, when you have specifically a celebrity owned brand? There is sometimes skepticism around is the product actually good, but there's also obviously a lot of attractiveness and attention that comes from a celebrity backing the brand. So how do you sort of balance that in creating a website or creating an online experience, to to most hook consumers? Yeah. I think, part of it is up to us and part of it is up to, you know, how that brand is thinking about it, and we may or may not agree. I think what I love about, a Steelers or bureaus, an example, is at the end of the day, like, all of these celebrities, creators, whatever, they're all just people like us, and they have things that they don't see in the market. But, ultimately, they have the resources to act on it a little differently than maybe me or you would. Mhmm. And I think those are the brands that are most poised to be successful if they know that this is an opportunity. So for stillers, it's like there's so many functional beverages out there trying to do so much. Let's just create, like, a better soda that is lower calorie, lower sugar that you can feel okay drinking and still have that kind of experience of, you know, going to get tacos and having a root beer or whatever it might be. Mhmm. Biro, I loved hearing, on the Rich Roll podcast is what I was referencing. Tom, anyone, definitely check it out. Kinda talks about and Jackie, please correct me. I'll do my best. But, you know, doing dry January and then realizing it was way harder than he thought. Mhmm. And he instead of giving up, he was like, I think I need to, like, do something here because this is way harder than I thought. Yeah. And through that experience, you know, he's at bars and realizing, like, he was always the guy with the nonalcoholic drink, and everybody's kinda like, what's up with you? Yeah. And saw this need to create a great nonalcoholic drink that could fit into that that vibe. And so I think through those experiences, they're trying to create something that is a great product serving a need for a person like them. Mhmm. And so to me, when we think about, you know, long winded way of saying when we think about the website Mhmm. It's really making sure that that comes through Mhmm. And not necessarily, like, you know, if that social, presence is there or aura around the celebrities there, that may be what gets them, you know, someone into we think of it as a party or something. Like, it gets them in the door. Mhmm. So if they land on the website or they get into the experience, they don't necessarily need to see that person again right in the front. So if you go to still his website, Ben is not the top of the page. Mhmm. Because then it's like, okay. Well, what is the why am I here and why will I stay? Why will I engage? Yeah. And so for us, that's kinda like pulling that out, really understanding is that what the product is about? Is the product a good product? Is it serving a need? And that comes through. Yeah. And then as that kinda takes off, you know, the hope, I think, for many of these brands is that Tom Holland and Ben Stiller are a little hard with the name, but, like, they become kind of, like, the punch line Yeah. Yeah. Later Yeah. That, like, somebody is at a bar. We were just talking about some local bars that serve Bureau on Tap, and they're drinking it. And someone's like, you know, that's Tom Holland's. Yeah. And they're like, oh, cool. Like, this is great. It's not like, go try that because Tom Holland started it. Mhmm. Mhmm. So I think that's, like, what we're always looking for, and we wanna be able to tell online as much as possible. Yeah. Yeah. What I would add to that is and I love how you explained what you heard on Rich Roll's podcast Yeah. And Tom's story. You said it better than than I could have. But I think Tom often says with our team that he created this product for his younger self. And I love that for a variety of reasons, but I think it just really speaks to the intentionality and the authenticity. He wants this to be something that people recognize for just being a great beer. It allows you to fit in and feel included in any sort of social environment, whether you're at a bar, at a restaurant, or at someone's backyard barbecue, or a basement house party, whatever it is. Biro should be that brand that, one, is just a great beer. It tastes great. It just happens to not have alcohol in it. But Mhmm. The process, the way we brew, it is a beer, the same four ingredients, the same brewing mentality, and, ultimately, the final product just doesn't have some of the effects that alcohol might. But I think, you know, the idea of creating this for your younger self really shows that he wanted this to be something that could leave a legacy. But, certainly, from a discovery perspective Mhmm. People should see this, love it because it's a great product. And then the association with him is a nice cherry on top where, you know, he has a great story and the why behind the brand matters. Mhmm. Love it. Love love that. We, we actually ran some original research at Highlight, with our community. We reached over 1,200 consumers, and we learned some interesting stats that, really mirror what you say in echo, the importance of having an authentic message and a great product. So 60% of consumers polled said that they are skeptical of celebrity brand, backed products. 29 have purchased a product before because it was backed by a celebrity, but only, 12% say they're more likely to trust a new brand if it's backed by a celebrity. And we dig into why and we ask open ended around why is that the case. It's always because I'm unsure if if the celebrity was just paid to market the product. I'm unsure of how authentic, the product is to the celebrities, actual, like, lived experience. And I think everything that you're both saying around, you know, putting the product first, ensuring that the celebrity is is genuine in their involvement and and everything ties and there's an authentic story is critical, not only for, trial, but also for repurchase on the consumer side, because it can quickly go the other way. It can quickly lead to skepticism or, you know, this person was just paid off. And I think in both of these scenarios, it's very clear that that's not the case. So pretty cool. Yeah. I think it's like the, when we think about other things, you know, other channels like PR Mhmm. Meaning, like, talk shows, podcasts, all this stuff. Yeah. Treating the celebrity as a founder is really important. And so, like, the fact that I keep referencing this podcast, which is, you know, all about kind of personal growth, health and wellness and stuff to have Tom on there as just a guy talking about a story and then doing this is, like, incredibly powerful for those who listen to it Mhmm. Which I think is different than, like, posting on social media and having his face next to this can. And people are just like, was this, like, like, another one? Really? Like, why is he doing this? Yeah. Yeah. That's super interesting to hear. And I think it it's, like, up to the brand to create that narrative because in the absence of it, customers will create it for you, and then it's really hard to come out of it. Totally. Which is to your point why you need to own your own narrative with your with your website where which you have full control over. Yeah. The the exact number is 44% of consumers believe when they see a brand backed by a celebrity that the celebrity was just paid to market the product. So it's a big perception hurdle to cross. I'd love to talk a little bit about product superiority. We talked about the product needing to stand on its own. I love the idea of Tom or Ben being a punchline or the cherry on top. No pun intended for the Shirley Temple. Yeah. We, not to brag for you, Jackie, but we we ran some, blinded taste testing, between highlight and bureau to make sure that, your team was going in eyes wide open around, how does your product perform. And I I'm, excited by the results. I'd love to talk a little bit about what we tested, why we tested it, and, how the results came out, if that's cool with you. I would love to. So we, and maybe I'll maybe I'll actually pass it to you if you wanna share a bit more about the test and how it came to be. Yeah. So we we came to Dana with a specific ask that was a little bit around just there's a lot of new brands in the space, a lot of legacy brands that have launched zero zero SKUs. We all love and drink our own product constantly at Vero HQ, and we believe the brand can be superior, and is. But I think, you know, we came to Dana with a specific ask around proving that and showing, you know, whether it's investors, whether it's retailers, whether it's eventually some form of customer satisfaction, you know, that our product can stand above some of the competitive set. So, specifically, we tested our West Coast style IPA, which is certainly what we would say is an internal favorite as well as a lot of our customers are really, really loving it. It's got a super strong hop profile. The mouthfeel is just what you'd expect when you sip on an IPA, specifically a West Coast style. It's delicious. It pairs really nicely with, you know, like, that dinner more chicken meat style meal. We, wanted to test that head to head against some of the competitive set. And so we did against one of the major leading competitors in our space, specifically their IPA skew. And Biro came out superior in a sample size of about 240, which certainly small numbers, but it was a really, really great indication that from an enjoyment and flavor expectations being met perspective that customers and consumers that were part of the study were really happy and excited about what we were putting in front of them. So definitely an amazing step in the right direction for us in sort of proving what we have grown to believe internally. Mhmm. But I think for us, part of our product development process will be continuing to do more studies like this across our full SKU portfolio, and then also widen the competitive set a little bit so that we can really understand where we have opportunity to make optimizations and where we can go back to Grant and sit and say, you know, this might need a little bit more lemon. This might need a little bit more hop. This might need a little bit less yeast or whatever it might be in order for the flavor profile to really be what customers expect when they pick up a bureau of a certain SKU. So it was exciting and, you know, I think just the beginning for us in terms of really telling that story. Yeah. Yeah. It's super cool. The reason I love this story is you've got an amazing brand champion and founder in Tom, an amazing authentic story. You've got an industry vet leader in John. You've got yourself building community and story and marketing. You've got, an amazing brewmaster, and yet you still are holding yourselves accountable to blinded liquid taste testing to make sure that the product you're putting out there is superior in meeting customer expectations. And I can't say enough how much of a green flag that is in terms of, like, will your company, your brand, your product portfolio be successful, because we know that trial, can totally be, juiced by celebrity involvement or wonderful marketing. But repeat, someone buying that IPA again and again and again, is is really, contingent on the product being amazing. And not only are you testing your own product, but holding a high bar testing against category leaders, very, very exciting stuff. Yeah. We're pumped about it. And I think for us, as we continue to evolve what the current portfolio looks like within bureaus offerings, but also what the future looks like Mhmm. Whether that's new pack configurations, new flavors, limited time offers, special seasonal additions, You know, all of that has to be coming from the consumer. Mhmm. Ultimately, we wanna make sure that our customers are happy with what we're putting out there. We want them to feel included in the process and also that everything that they're tasting meets their expectations, hopefully, exceeds it Yeah. In terms of what else is out there, but also our product just being good enough that it stands on its own. Yeah. It's amazing. The other, really fun and creative outcome of this testing was, when we were reading through the results, you had the idea of these are people that, you know, are loved our product in a blind taste test. Can we reach back out to them? Let them know we actually just launched in Target, and say thank you so much for your feedback. Go check us out there. And you're constantly thinking through customer journey, how to build community, how to close the loop, how to keep everyone involved in in a way that I think is is really impressive and and just Thank you. Yeah. That was a fun one. I was like, you're gonna think I'm for this, but can we hit up everyone who is a part of the survey and send them a six pack of Biro just to say thank you for giving us some love during this process. It's really helpful as we creatively think about what comes next for the brand. So that was fun. Totally. So much community building. Actually, Lucas and I were talking about how, Biro in particular, the community that you've built, feels very, very thoughtful and, yeah, it's very impressive from from afar. It's just the beginning, hopefully. Yes. Definitely. Lucas, we talked a bit about, of course, you have a portfolio of brands. You've worked with a ton of different celebrity backed brands. Building out their digital experiences and just building out their brands is different from a non celebrity backed brand. How do you think about, like, do's and don'ts in the world of digital storytelling for celebrity backed brands? What can people learn from your your wide breadth of experience? Yeah. I think the I guess the most unique parts of it are understanding the, exposure and press that is probably happening around the work that we're doing before it's actually live. Mhmm. So there's some very, thoughtful things that we're often bringing when a client reach out and we know that they're it's usually, like, there's a code name for the project. We're not allowed to know what it is. There's, like, 17 NDAs. But, sometimes, you know, we know the product that we don't know who's behind it yet. Mhmm. But then we're often like, hey. You know, what is the we wanna really dig in. And this is true for any new launch, but these are just very different Sure. Because there's, like, stages of it becoming a thing that's available. Mhmm. And there's usually, like, a PR. There's, like, a a TV show appearance or there's, like, something that's kind of there's an event Mhmm. That will happen no matter what. Mhmm. But then there's also the kind of ramp up. And so we're often helping you know, our clients may come for we need a website, and we're like, let's let's actually take a step back. What are all the phases before that is available? Mhmm. Because there's the chance that it gets leaked. Mhmm. There's the chance that the celebrity decides to say something about it when they shouldn't have. You know, these things happen, and so we'll do things like putting together, kind of a landing page where it has, like, kind of peak imagery, like, peaking some of the imagery and then, like, a sign up form so that people can start to sign up to get, you know, notified when it goes live. Mhmm. Kind of some of these, like, things to have in place for anything that may go wrong, so that you're not going to, you know, bureau.com before I don't know if that's the URL, but, bureau.com. .Com. Okay. There you go. When it's not live and it's just like an empty page, it's like, okay. Something's there Yeah. You know, that you can kinda engage with that looks good. Yeah. So there's that side of it. And then, honestly, like, I think the process we've learned a lot about the process of working with high profile people who you may or may not have access to. So you're you're several layers deep. Mhmm. And they could come in at the last minute with changes because they weren't able to see them, maybe they're shooting a movie or whatever was happening. Mhmm. And so just really trying to build process to allow for some of that flexibility and kinda knowing that Mhmm. Throughout this creative process, like, we just have to trust the team. And, like, it's no one's fault if something happens. Mhmm. Because, you know, these these folks, like I always laugh because especially the higher profile that you get, it's like, for anybody who's skeptical, it's like, they don't have to do this. Mhmm. Like, this is definite like, this is like a passion project. Mhmm. They don't have to do this. So in that way, it's like there's other things going on. And so understanding that as you go through the process as much as they wanna be involved, it can be difficult. Mhmm. So just knowing, like, what do we need to do to kinda make sure that we can bend with whatever is happening on the team side Yeah. And make sure that, like, if there's some rocky stuff that pops up, like Yeah. We can accommodate and get there for launch. So Yeah. Let's say those are some of the things things that come to mind. Yeah. But then, honestly, the best ones are, like, just thinking about this is launching any other brand. Yeah. Like Yeah. We are gonna be in retail. What does that mean? And Yeah. You know, is our inventory ready for the demand? Like, if we're launching on Amazon, what's the strategy? Like, all of those things become just as important as anybody else. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. One of those critical, must have steps in launching a brand and launching a product is identifying your target audience. Mhmm. And particularly for these examples, I feel like we've talked a little bit about who is the Stiller's drinker, who are you thinking of of, coming to landing on stillersoda.com. I don't know if that's the URL. But stillersoda.com. Stillersoda.com. Yeah. Or who is the the bureau drinker? I know from, our team specifically, like, I I was drinking bureau when I was pregnant. It was wonderful. Mhmm. And Chelsea on our team is drinking bureau when she's marathon training as a non alcoholic option. And Dom, who you've met, drinks bureau in bars as a way of of not having the effects of alcohol, but drinking a delicious beer. And, there's so many different, especially for these sort of category straddlers Mhmm. Audiences that you need to consider. So how do you think about building a website or a target digital experience, for a specific target audience when the category is a bit blurrier? And same goes for Biro. How do you think about telling that story when there are so many different segments? I just generally speaking, what I would say is so, you know, a lot of people there's there's people you'll meet who, like, are very upset with the state of marketing and where it's continuing to go because it's so targeted, and we know so much about people. But I think on the other side of that is you're able to show consumers the things that are most relevant for them Yeah. In the way that is most relevant to them. Totally. You know, like, when I was having my first kid, it's like, you kinda just go to some sites and then you just wait for the ads to start shopping. Like and it's like, it's great. It's just like, they'll come to me and I'll know where to start going. Right? And then you can keep doing research. And so there's the beauty of that. And so I think as a brand today, you don't wanna try to be everything to everyone, but you do have segments of customers who are interested in different things. So, like, you know, I don't really drink alcohol. I haven't for a while. Mhmm. I for certain lifestyle reasons, I may not be the target or maybe I am, but there's, like, things about my life that will bureau will fit into. Mhmm. But then somebody who you know, I have somebody close to me who, has been sober for many years. Mhmm. Very different thing, but, like, it's very relevant for them. And so I actually think when you have a very function not even function driven product, but a product that has really a lot that is making it unique in the market. Mhmm. I actually think of it more as, like, making sure the kind of origin story and what the product is about is most clear. Mhmm. And then using your marketing channels to think about when you're hyper targeting these people, like, how you make it relevant to them. Because if your website is talking about moms, the bureau Yeah. Like, that's a miss. Yeah. Because anybody who's not is like, what is this? Yeah. So Yeah. It's like, talk about why bureaus great. Yeah. And then when it's relevant to those people, like, where are they are they in Facebook groups? Are they in on Reddit? Whatever it is Mhmm. What is it that is gonna be appealing to them? Maybe it's an influencer who's like, when I was pregnant, this was my go to. Totally. And they will find it that way. Yeah. So I think it's really, like, again, this idea of brand storytelling and, like, product attributes. Yeah. And maybe, you know, there are certain types of products we'll do, like, use case pages, like, especially, like, appliances and but, otherwise, like, just really making it clear why you're special. Yeah. And then people will kinda find their community within that. Totally. I think one thing that's been really interesting about Biro since we've launched is I I think there's certainly an existing audience that we knew that we wanted to tap into, but the category is still so small in terms of total beer. Right? Non off beer is 3% of total beer. That's a really small percentage. Yeah. All the data is showing us that that percentage and share of pie will grow pretty significantly over the next, you know, ten, fifteen, fifty years. Yeah. But I think where we are now is different than where we'll be. And so I think what's beautiful about the Biro brand and the opportunity that we have is certainly there are people who have already tried drinking some of the available options out there. Mhmm. They are looking for alternatives. They're looking for variety. Mhmm. That's certainly an easy one to kind of slide right into and tap into that consumer base. But one data point that we've seen in a lot of our, you know, brand testing, retail data that we've received is that we're pretty highly incremental to the category. So what that means is we've brought in new customers to the Target stores around The US. We have brought new people into the exploration of non op beer. And I think part of that is largely due to Tom's influence and sort of normalizing non op beer in a way that's really special. Mhmm. But I also think that we've been able to sort of tap into different pockets of culture that some of the other brands in our space haven't yet. Mhmm. So whether that's golf, tennis, paddle, and a little bit more of that country club lifestyle where maybe some of our competitors have focused on things like marathon training or hiking, all of which are great occasions for non alc beer, might I add. But in order for us to be successful, every brand that exists in the NA beer space has to grow. We're very much an all ships must rise kind of mentality at Buro, and I think we're still at the very beginning of this journey. And so when it comes to who our customer is, there are certainly people who are sober by choice because there's health reason associated. Maybe they're in recovery. Yeah. And those people are definitely interesting customers for us. But we also know that 90% of our current bureau customer base from the data that we have Mhmm. Do drink alcohol. Mhmm. We also know from Nielsen data that about 92 of non op purchases happen with alcohol in La Carte Mhmm. At checkout. And so I think there's this really interesting space that we can play in that's very much an additive social experience Mhmm. Mentality where bureau doesn't need to be instead of. It can be in addition to. And that's very much something that I've tried to lean into with our marketing and our comps hierarchy since the very beginning because I think, one, the category is too small for us to be saying switch, substitute, get rid of. Yeah. That's not who we are. Yeah. It's very much about, you know, add this into your routine. You will love it. It tastes great. We have an amazing story and a great product. Mhmm. But it's really about growth across the full category. In order for us to be successful or any of our competitors to be successful, we all have to keep building. Yeah. I think it's it's funny because you mentioned some of the other, options out that are out there that are more, like, fitness focused or, like, outdoors lifestyle. And I do think, what we're uncovering, especially with, like, creator led or celebrity led brands, is the audience is often the founder. Mhmm. So it's like a lot of those brands are coming out of, like Mhmm. Somebody who, like, loved going hiking and didn't wanna take beer. You know? Like, whatever it was, like Yeah. They're building it for themselves, and that kind of becomes the place to start. Yeah. But it's still through that brand storytelling, and then, like, you kinda learn how people have what they're doing with the product. Right? It's like it's kinda like, yeah, I I played music for a long time and, you realize, like, you write these very personal songs, you share them, and then they become, like, something for everyone else that's no longer about you anymore. Yeah. It's like Oh, such a good analogy. Yeah. It's just like, let's you know, people are getting married, playing, and you're just like, oh, okay. So cool. Yeah. So I think that's really cool to kinda discover as a brand and see what people have done with, you know, what you've created. Yeah. And I think Tom is so involved in our ecosystem. I would say, you know, more involved than people might realize even from the various channels where he's super active, obviously, and has been such an active participant in things like podcast discussions and, you know, press and media opportunities, but even just every round of beer that is brewed Mhmm. As we're iterating on a new SKU, he's tasting that. He's giving his feedback to Grant in real time. Mhmm. And so I think his story was critical in sort of aligning the brand with pillars of his own lifestyle that mattered, but then we've been able to really quickly, I think, start to diversify that. So, yes, Tom Tom is an amazing golfer. We've done a lot in the golf space. It's been amazing. His handicap is, like, a three or something insane. But I think what's been really cool, particularly because we've been so focused on building a premium brand that's focused on elevated social experiences. We've been able to sort of dabble in this more, like, fine dining, white table cloth space. We've also done some interesting things in the world of fashion and luxury auto, and there's this really exciting opportunity for us to kind of carve a new path. Mhmm. And then I think the social occasions where Biro becomes normalized and very much a part of the routine is additive to what's currently happening in terms of, like, you know, day to day consumer behavior. Yeah. Yeah. It's so true. With any founder led brand, the dynamic is always that is the target audience to start to Lucas' point. And that impact, I imagine, is only tenfold, for celebrity owned brands because that face is so, top of mind and splash everywhere and in the name. And so I think it's it's even more important for, celebrity backed brands to understand outside of the founder persona, what are the other potential segments. To your to Lucas' point earlier, especially when a product has a functional benefit or, sits in a a sort of what I consider to be like this, like, these, like, straddling categories, like, Stillers is potentially pulling from sparkling water drinkers, but also potentially pulling from soda drinkers, or, you know, Bureau going from non ALK drinkers to ALK drinkers to people who are sober or sober curious. There are so many different segments that you could tap that it's so important to look for, these niche audiences, that might seem niche at first, but could be your gold mine later. You talked about cloud and the pro Khloe Kardashian's protein high protein popcorn. High protein and the segments associated and the occasions associated is such a massive body of research within the highlight ecosystem because you can find athletes, you can find moms, you can find professionals on the go, you can you know? So I I, I love the focus on really understanding and parsing the segments. Yeah. I I think, this is true of any brand, but, you know, I love the story of Jackie reaching out to all of the the people who did the highlight study because, you know, it it sounds very obvious, but, like, talk to your customers. Totally. Like, come on, people. Like, you know, we're, like, trying to Yeah. You know, look at data for conversion. And I'm just like, you just, like, go talk to some people. And so we've actually done that with a lot of our clients. There's a great framework called Jobs To Be Done Yeah. You know, people might be familiar with. But you really understand, like, you spend an hour with someone and dig deep and you realize they don't even know what eventually Yeah. Made them buy the product. But there's often, you know, in that framework, it's like, what job is the product doing Totally. For that person. And then you realize that you're actually not even competing with, you know, somebody, let's say, is sober. Mhmm. Biro is not competing with beer. Mhmm. At all. Mhmm. So it's like, they might be competing with water, like, not even sparkling water. It's like so it's understanding, like, what are all of the, like, indirect competitors and things that that person is looking at and, like, what is actually important to that person's lifestyle. Mhmm. And it's so easy to do this. You know, you look at if you sell online or you wherever you're selling, like, if you can get access to your top customers and talk to, like, five a month, you're gonna learn a lot in a year. Yeah. That's gonna tell you so much about what you should be doing. Yeah. And the brands that don't do that, I think it's just a miss because you're too fur you're too focused on your competitors Yeah. And, like, industry trends. And suddenly, you're launching a protein beer. What are we doing? Like, what are we doing? And so I think still is is a, you know, we'll see how that kinda unfolds, but I love this kinda simplicity of just, like, create a soda that is still soda, but Yeah. Healthier. Totally. You know, 30 calories, like, six or seven grams of sugar, and, like, just enjoy it, and let's just start there. Yeah. Yeah. I love the, like, the idea of your competitors are maybe not who they you think they are. We in the in the, theme of protein, for example, we're constantly saying, to our our customers who are protein bar customer or brand or protein, yogurt brand, whatever they might be. It is not actually the other protein yogurt that they're deciding between. It's a slice of turkey. It is a beef jerky stick. It is, you know, a protein shake, whatever it might be. Same goes for probably either of these beverages where it might not be the next non health beer. It could be or it might not be the other, healthier soda. It could be a sparkling water. It could be a water. It could be an alcoholic beer. There's so many you really need to take a step back and put yourself in customers' shoes to understand, the competitive landscape. I think for us, the biggest unlock has been realizing that we are for the people who might go every other with a sparkling water at the bar. Mhmm. We also might be some, you know, we might be for the person who used to have five beers out of the bar, but now they have three and they have two bureaus. Mhmm. And so I actually would say, interestingly, like, we beer is our is our competitive set Yeah. You know, at a global level Yeah. Where it's not just about the non off products because I think as consumer behavior shifts Yeah. We are competing with that in terms of making Yeah. The the consumer journey and the normalization of just having an on off beer that you wanna drink all the time. And But it's so funny you say that because I'm like, you know, I I we're I was talking to some folks in the industry last night. We're talking about partnerships. And I'm like, bureau partnering with a beer brand to do some I mean, I'm just saying this, like, to be like, hey. Enjoy these together kind of thing. Like, I'm not saying this is a good idea, but I'm just like, those are the things that start to come up when you think this way because you're like then people are like, oh. Yeah. Okay. You guys are afraid to embrace this. Like, hey. We know that people do this. So, like, let's just embrace it and, like, this is a behavior that we think is great. Mhmm. So I think just, like, again, it's understanding that customer and being like, do we wanna lean in? Do we wanna do we need to do something different? Yeah. But without that, you have no information to really develop a strategy, which I think is where brands just get totally lost. Yeah. And they just start launching random products, the catalog's growing, and you lose sight of, like, what we were even doing in the first place. Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah. One of the more fun parts of, being at Highlight and seeing different brands and their products, is actually looking at the data coming in and looking at our at our insight suite. And particularly, we have, this feature in our software, that allows you to essentially pull out segments and carve out, what do people think if they are Gen Z or they live in the South or they are sober or they are category engaged. And particularly for for bureau the bureau example, we found that, yes, bureau won across the board, across those 240 ish consumers. But when you actually pull out the sober folks, that delta of how much more they love bureau to the category leader is even greater. And that that preference is amplified. And so there's all these really cool nuggets when you start to segment out your consumer data that, could easily be missed. But perceptions vary, use cases vary, competitors vary. I love the theme, of course, as a as a biased consumer Yeah. Consumer testing, aficionado. Between, like, just being a customer and being in the space you're like. Totally. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's fascinating. Okay. Looking at the time, it looks like we're actually out of time, unfortunately. I could talk to you guys forever. Lucas, Jackie, thank you so so much for joining us on the highlight reel. We will be sending a post event email, with all the ways to stay connected to Beryl, to Bureau, and to Highlight. And be sure to follow us on LinkedIn to hear about the next episode coming in 2026. Crazy that we are already talking about this. It's insane. Oh my gosh. Thank you so much. Thank you for having us.